Haven't had a chance to view this yet but I think this is new:


Noa's picture

Thanks, Francis.  If the download Gods are smiling, I may get to watch most of this 2.75 hour movie!

If any of you haven't watched the Zeitgeist Addendum yet, it's also on YouTube.  I think it's my favorite out of the series.



ChrisBowers's picture

I so love that Jacque Fresco opened the documentary with a little bit of his own personal history and developing world view at an early age...  No wonder he founded the Venus Project and partnered with the Zeitgeist Movement...

And I love that at the age of 94 he is still at it and can summarize his opening offering with

"This Shit's got to go"  Jacque, YOU ROCK!!!!!

Noa's picture

Jacque Fresco is a genius with a beautiful vision of the future, however, when I wrote to him with the suggestion that maybe an alternative plan in the interim might be useful, he never replied.  My point is that if he allows a community to live on the Venus Project's land now, they could help build a showcase of permaculture and other sustainable technologies to inspire other people to do the same today, not sometime in the future when (or if) he gets the financial backing to realize his ideal.

He could have told me I'm full of crap and that would've been an acceptable response.  Without his reply, I can only assume he is trapped within his own single-solution paradigm.

I truly hope Fresco's dream becomes reality, otherwise, it's just notes on paper.




ChrisBowers's picture

Last time I wrote to Jacque and Roxanne they were planning to move their operations to Equador where they may be doing something similar to your suggestion of modeling their ideas.  Don't know if this plays into why they didn't respond.

Wendy's picture

Hi Francis,

Thanks for posting this, I would have too, even without watching it first as Zeitgeist 1&2 were good films. This one? I have to say I'm slightly horrified. It seems like a control freak's nightmare society. No freedom of choice allowed, no personal responsibility, everything centrally planned. Where is the diversity - my God it looks so uniform!? How will people really grow without having the ability to choose wrongly? Will diversity be programmed into the decision making computer as well, recognizing that doing everything the most efficient way may leave the society with unforseen vulnerabilities? How do they think this "no choice" society will be enforced? Ending the film with the cops that have the big sticks - that is the only way to have a society that is controlled from some central computer. The opposite is what we need - allow freedom and encourage diversity, personal decisions and personal responsibility.

The film blames the unsusainable lifestyle on our current market system, not recognizing the fact that we don't really have a market system but a monopoly system. Simply changing a few simple rules, disallowing usery and eliminating central banks, putting the creation of money back into the hands of government would make our economic system better reflect the natural ecologic system and natually bring about sustainability.

Bottom line: If the Zeitguist movement thinks this is a good way to live then do it. Create a working city and if it truly does work, it will naturally attract others to follow suit. I tend to think it will never get off the drawing board. 



Noa's picture


At last, I was able to watch the entire movie on YouTube, but it wasn't easy.  In my case, the movie kept stopping at regular increments (which will most likely become the divisions when they eventually cut the video down into smaller parts for easier viewing). I had to manually skip over a few minutes in each section to get the video to resume... but it was worth it! 

Thank you for posting this, Francis.  What a powerful movie!  By some "coincidence" I was just writing my thoughts about the power elite when you posted.  This video answered many of my nagging questions about them. 

I kept asking myself, when is enough enough?  They already have plenty more than they actually need, why do they want even more?  After watching the film, I realize that if we take away the monetary system, the power mongers will no longer have a reason for being (at least from their point of view).  God forbid they actually find something valuable to contribute to society!

I took copious notes during the movie, so I thought I'd copy them here for the rest of you.  I hope they make sense out of context.

Peter Joseph:  Socially negative attributes have become positively rewarded ventures for industry, and any interest in problem resolution or environmental sustainability and conservation is intrinsically counter to economic sustainability… and this is why every time you see the Gross Domestic Product  rise in any country, you are witnessing an increase in necessity, whether real or contrived, and by definition, necessity is rooted in efficiency.  Hence, increased necessity means increased inefficiency.  

One might wonder why so many have a compulsion for shopping and acquisition, when it is clear, [people] have been conditioned since childhood to expect material goods as a sign of their status with friends and family.  The fact is, the foundation of a society are the values that support its operation, and our society (as it exists) can only exist if our values support the conspicuous consumption it requires to continue the market system.

It is like a religion… where universal human need, natural resources, or any form of physical life-supporting efficiency is ruled out by default and replaced by the singular notion that humans seek an advantage over each other for money alone.  [Somehow] motivated by their own narrow self-interests [this] will magically create a sustainable society.

Economist:  There is no life coordinate in this whole theory.  What they are doing is tracking money sequences… presupposing everything that matters.  1) there are no life coordinates. 2) all agents are self-maximizing preference seekers.  They think of nothing other than themselves… self-maximizing choice… and the only thing they’re interested in maximizing is money or commodities. 

So where does social relations come in?  It doesn’t except in the exchange to self-maximize.  Where do our actual resources come in?  They don’t except to exploit.  Where does the family come in as to being able to survive?  It doesn’t.  They have to have money in order to purchase any goods.  Well, shouldn’t an economy somewhere deal with human need – isn’t that the fundamental issue – to satisfy human needs?  Oh, that’s not even in their lexicon – you desolve it into wants – and what is a want?  That means “money demand that wants to buy.”  Well, if it’s “money demand that wants to buy,”  that doesn’t have anything to do with needs, cause maybe a person has no “money demand” and wants desperately to buy, say, water supply.  Or it maybe that “money demand” is a gold toilet.   It’s got to be the most bizarre delusion in the history of human thought.

That is the market system.  The monetary system creates conditions for the market system.

Michael Ruppert:  We live in an infinite growth paradigm.  The economic paradigm we live in now is a ponzi scheme… it’s not just the amount of money that has to keep growing, it’s the amount of consumers – consumers to borrow money at interest to generate more money, and obviously that’s not possible on a finite planet.  People are basically vehicles to just create money, which must create more money, to keep the whole thing from falling apart, which is what is happening now. 

Waste machine – market system.  Debt machine – monetary system.

Structural  Classism – the poor borrow money to pay the rich investors (who make money without contributing to the betterment of society).

There are now, conservatively, 700 trillion dollars of outstanding fraudulent claims (known as derivatives) still waiting to collapse – a value amounting to ten times the GDP of the entire planet!  Income tax would have to be 65% to pay the interest.  But since debt is created out of nothing… are we stupid?

Economist: The single most important principle underlying the preventative feature of violence is equality. 

Peter Joseph: Make no mistake, the greatest destroyer of ecology; the greatest source of waste and depletion and pollution; the greatest purveyor of violence, war, crime, poverty, animal abuse, and inhumanity; the greatest generator of personal and social neurosis, mental disorders, depression, anxiety, not to mention the greatest source of social paralysis stopping us from moving into new methodology – to personal health, global sustainability, and progress on this planet – is not some corrupt government or legislation; not some rogue corporation or banking cartel; not some flaw of human nature, and not some secret hidden cabal that controls the world; it is in fact, the socio-economic system itself at its very foundation.  [Whew!  That’s one long sentence!]

Speaker:  When it comes to the game of death -- the systematic daily mass murder of human beings, nothing else compares in history to what we have today.  Famines (throughout at least the last century of our history) have not been caused by lack of food; they’ve been caused by relative poverty.  The economic resources were so inequitably distributed that the poor didn’t have enough money with which to buy the food that would’ve been available if they could’ve afforded to pay for it.  That would be an example of Structural Violence. 

The people in Africa, who are dying of AIDS, are not dying because pf the HIV virus; they are dying because they don’t have the money with which to pay for the drugs that would keep them alive… poverty kills more people than all the wars in history, more than all the murders in history.  Not only does structural violence kill more people than all the behavioral violence put together, structural violence is the main cause of behavioral violence. 

There has to be a link between the economy and our material resources. 

This is a monetary paradigm that won’t let go until the last human being is dead.

Don't want to leave you on such a negative note. The end of the movie suggests a possible solution for ending this Monopoly game. (I won't spoil the ending.)

Moving forward, I'm in the process of pursuing my own solution and hope to have some success stories to share with you in the coming months.  My project is to start a LETS group where I live.  LETS uses a system of local currency and barter/exchange to build economic stability, and foster cooperation and friendship within communities.  Having such a system in place is a nice "safety net" against economic collapse.

The world isn't coming to an end... just life as we know it.  That's a nice thought, really.



Francis's picture

I realize that if we take away the monetary system, the power mongers will no longer have a reason for being (at least from their point of view)."  Except for the fact that food is the new money.  It's all about power isn't it?  It's only because people believe in money that it works.  Here's a few videos from Nextworldtv that illustrate some creative ways people are coping with this "opportunity," because shouldn't we look at all of this as the creative impetus that lights a fire under our collective asses to create constructive change in our world and lives, and yes, communities are a good start.

Hope that's not too off topic, in the middle of moving and still haven't had a chance to view the film.


Wendy's picture

Thanks guys. I think your ideas for solutions are way better than having some computer controlled city.

Here's some info. on LETS.




I tried to contact the founder of craig'slist a while back, but never got a response. I always thought that if someone could combine the advertising power of craig's list with the LETS system it would take off like a rocket.


tscout's picture

 very clearly that their plan isn t a solution, but a step in the right direction..These folks have been doing bi-weekly radio shows since Addendum,(except for brief periods ), and have had a lot of great ideas on how everyone, and anyone would be able to download any idea , on anything into the central computers..Every idea would be considered by the super computers..If there is any way to utilize any part of your idea for the greater good,you would be offered a chance to be part of makin g it happen, and working on the project....That, to me, is a way to make the world a better place, the way for each of us to contribute with the ideas that flow into our consciousness,,and that alone blows away any idea I have ever heard...I don t get the comment about how the only way to have a city controlled by a big computer is by having cops with big sticks standing around...The cop scene at the end was part of Peter Joseph s artistic expression, showing the cops finally putting down their weapons after the massive ,worldwide protests,,,and a call from the PTB..The idea is to let the computers figure out the best way to design,build, and sustain our cities, as , although many cities on this planet have alot of charm, ,they don t work, and our "freedom of choice" in development ,and business, is the bulk of why we are in the mess we are in..There is alot more to their plan than these cities, they are merely a step back to a more "round" way of thinking, as it is much more natural, and sustainable...Conclusions made by a supercomputer would be far more intelligent than any that we have made as a society, as they have always been based on profit..If we just shut down the fed reserve, and start our own currency, we have barely put a dent in the problem..We still have a society based on profit, so we will still have 35,000 kids a day starving,and corporations polluting,etc...The resources need to be taken away from the handful controlling them,and then used very carefully to take care of everyone..I would suggest watching this one at least a couple of times....

Wendy's picture

Hi Tscout-

I don't understand how they are expecting people to give up their freedom of choice without having some kind of an enforcement mechanism, if not cops with sticks, then massive mind control techniques.

I can't imagine a computer making decisions about which artists activities will be allowed and which artists activities will be considered an inefficient, unsustainable use of precious resources. The idea lacks heart and reminds me of the awful bio-engineering mistakes that were made in the 50's and 60's when we thought science would provide the answers to everything and all kinds of environmental disasters occurred because the complexity of ecology was not fully understood (nor is it now, I believe).

Capitalism as it's set up now, with it's usery-debt-as-money aspects are forcing everyone to build, build, build and work, work, work to pay for interest on their debt in this musical chairs set up where there is never any money pumped into the system to pay the debt off without creating more debt. Without usery, the whole system becomes sustainable, no longer any driving need to build and work beyond what is sustainable.

Capitalism (not monopoly corporatism as it is now) combined with honest government that protects the rights of the individual has worked in the past to almost eliminate poverty. I suppose the case can be made that this system was not sustainable then but people were living in incredible abundance without the use of fossil fuels. Check out these Benjamin Franklin quotes:

“We have no poor houses in the Colonies; and if we had some, there would be nobody to put in them, since there is, in the Colonies, not a single unemployed person, neither beggars nor tramps.”

“There was abundance in the Colonies, and peace was reigning on every border. It was difficult, and even impossible, to find a happier and more prosperous nation on all the surface of the globe. Comfort was prevailing in every home. The people, in general, kept the highest moral standards, and education was widely spread.”

"That is simple. In the Colonies we issue our own money.
It is called Colonial Scrip. We issue it in proper proportion
to the demands of trade and industry to make the products
pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner,
creating for ourselves our own paper money, we control its
purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay no one."

"The Colonies would gladly have borne the little tax on tea and other matters had it not been the poverty caused by the bad influence of the English bankers on the Parliament, which has caused in the Colonies hatred of England and the Revolutionary War.”


Noa's picture

Francis, great ideas for food production!

Wendy, you might find a barter system already in place in your area on this link:  http://massachusetts.uscity.net/Barter/

TScout, I agree with all you said above except for your comment that "If we just shut down the fed reserve, and start our own currency, we have barely put a dent in the problem..We still have a society based on profit."  That is simply not so. 

Unlike our current federal money system, which is based on profit wherein money is created out of debt, LETS doesn't charge any interest on the money it uses.  Actually, the LETS system is done almost exclusively by notation of debits and credits in a database with little use of paper currency.  The debits are not actually debts, but promises to exchange in the future.  It's basically the same system we had before central banking when people used shells or pieces of metal to represent trade. 

For clarification, here's a simplified explanation of the 3 different barter systems in use today:

Barter - a one on one trade between 2 parties.  The drawback is you must want what the other person is trading.

Time Banks - trade using a form of local currency. This faciliates trade amongst a group of people, however, because the currency unit is based soley on the same time/dollar per hour, it's not appealing to many professionals.

LETS - uses an equitable system of exchange, negotiated solely by the applicable parties involved, to allow trade of virtually anything, included rent, building materials, labor, food, services, products, etc.  It works amongst laypersons and professionals alike.

You can find out more about this subject by watching the Money Fix.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUObHZnZoi8

The only way I can see thousands of people dumping their dollars on the doorsteps of the banks is if they have some other sustainable trading system in place to ensure they have access to food, clothing, shelter, etc.  LETS enables you to do that.  Again I say, having such a system in place is a good safety net for the impending financial collapse.


tscout's picture

 want to see the fed shut down,it is the perfect start to a long road ahead, but it is only a start.. I am sure that all the systems listed above by Noa will be used, and already are on a small scale where I live.Eliminating the issue of debt is huge,and takes alot of stress off of alot of people.All i am saying is that we have to change in every way,not just our monetary system,and these guys are trying to address some of the other issues..Wendy,,,,From what I have seen, art is completely encouraged in their ideas,it has been mentioned in the other movies,only artists would not have to produce what "mainstream" calls for, which is what a large percentage do now..They could create anything they desire,and would enjoy the luxury of giving it away to whomever they wanted,a much more rewarding feeling than selling it to the highest bidder..Once again, they have never said that their way is how it should be, only that it is a step in the right direction..That is key, as we have to start somewhere..Another of their key points is that the system should always be evolving, like the organisms we are...The idea that every person born on this planet is entitled to food, shelter,clothing, and education is undeniable,and it is the basis and the catalyst for true change...Everything else is debatable...I still don t see where anyone is being asked to give up freedom of choice..What I do see is people being asked to clean their slate, because the way we have been taught to do just about everything has been created by the PTB..These people are not saying computers should make the decisions,they are just capable of finding the best solutions,then it is up to us to make it happen..Decisions based on the greater good would be something new to the world,they never have,and never will be made in a profit based system...The way we build is a big issue in this new movie,as they use 40 or 45 percent of all natural resources...I could build a 1200 square foot self sustaining home, right now for 150,000 dollars, and that is fully loaded,,,but only because I would use very few traditional building materials..I am not a fan of that ultra modern look in the designs I see, but those are just ideas, and are still much smarter than our old designs, at least in the cities..Eliminating square is the important part..Why do people keep building the same crap on the very spot that the tornado ,or hurricane, just destroyed their old crap on ? I grew up in the middle of it,and it is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen..Actually,the answer is quite simple...We don t know any better,and home depot isn t going to sell anything different until we stop buying the stuff..Sorry, I don t mean to go off on that aspect of it, but it is a good example of how ignorant we all are to change..And, until we take one of these new systems and try it, then tinker with it, nothing will change.

ChrisBowers's picture

What's amazing to me is the many unforeseen benefits and mutually beneficial results that would most definitely come with these world view and behavioral and geopolitical/economic changes.  I get really excited thinking about all the changes that would come as a natural spontaneous result of a meta paradigm change from profit based to resource based economics...

Wendy's picture

Hi Guys,

Well I guess I just don't get resource based economics but I'm glad to hear that no one is advocating taking away personal choices from individuals here.

Noa, thanks for posting The Money Fix - it's a great film.



ChrisBowers's picture

Is to take a very close look at the present profit-based method of economics.  For example, in a profit-based economic system of medicine there is little to no incentive to find a cure for cancer when each new cancer patient represents another $200,000 in profitable revenues to AMA and big pharma (which are virtually one and the same since about 1930).

another, in a profit-based economic system of energy there is little to no incentive to seek new forms of energy (like free energy)...  and so on...

so I guess the question is, does mankind have to evolve to the place of collectively freely wanting a resource-based economy where no one person is presumed more important than the whole, or would there have to be a transition period where power is somewhat removed from the present profit-based stewards of the present paradigm?

I don't know how the transition would happen, but I can't help but think that a fair and equitable resource-based economic system would have to be somewhat better than the present paradigm of the despotic and systematic transfer of wealth back to the originators of a debt-based fractional reserve "rented" medium for barter of goods and services...

And if a super computer were being utilized in the equitable and efficient system of distribution of world resources, all the better that we use the tech tools at our disposal, as long as it isn't just one more head fake ruse by the ruling elite of the present paradigm...

Wendy's picture

Hi Chris,

The examples you picked are both prime examples of government involvement. There's little monetary incentive for the producers but plenty of incentive for consumers. There's actually tons of people very quietly providing alternative health services but due to the force of government, they have to be quiet about it or risk getting shut down or arrested.  There's no government program to hand out cell phones, yet most people have them today and they are devices that certainly help to cut down on energy usage and improve efficiency (how many trips to the store have we all saved due to that cell phone call home?) which is why many people own them. So many people, acting in a completely self-serving way can produce very efficient results.

Nature runs the most sustainable, efficient systems and they are run from the bottom up, not controlled from the top down. Ant's are being completely self-serving as they chew up leaves and yet the forest as a whole would have a problem if they suddenly disapeared - soil production would be dramatically slowed. Try to run a forest from the top down with a computer and I guarentee, someone somewhere will have forgotten to put in an important variable. Just let it run itself, stop trying to control everything and nature finds a nice sustainable balance all on it's own. I like the free market capitalists system because it most clearly resembles that of the natural world. Yes, lions, tigers and bears or perhaps mosquitoes make it difficult, that's why humans have instituted some government, for the purpose of protecting individuals from preditors. But when government tries to do more than that, it invariably becomes a worse predator than the bears were.


Noa's picture

We could sit around all day debating the best way to fix the economy.  The time for talk has passed; it's time to face the music and learn a new dance.

We're already on the edge of the precipice.  Look around you.  People who used to work are unemployed. People who once had homes are living in tent cities.  People who bought their own food are relying on government handouts.  The government is bankrupt!  The gross income of every American won't even pay half of the interest on the national debt... the writing is on the wall.  If that sounds scary, I hope it wakes you up!

I invite you to watch  "Money Mechanics"  http://www.gatheringspot.net/video/take-action-now/true-ott-phd-money-mechanics  Dr. Ott predicts the dollar will crash between July and October 2011.  The price of gas will triple overnight.  Food will disappear from the grocery shelves within days because it's too expensive to deliver it.  Those who are caught unaware will panic.

Eventually, a new economic system will be put into place.  But what if that takes months or even years?  You still gotta eat!  It's time to store food and prepare yourself for the ride.  If you learn how to trade within your community you'll have a valuable survival skill.  Don't wait for someone to save you. 

Be the change you seek.

From love,



tscout's picture

   as an incentive,,I think republicans and democrats are both right..Rep, want small or no government control,yet Bush grew govt. over 50 percent..Democrats want to control business, as corporations are slime,and would continue what they are doing now as long as it is profitable,,Yet the people in control just take a slice of the pie,What does that tell you..It tells me that neither one of their plans has ever, or, will ever work.......Politicians have no skills,except talk.They spent the 1st year of Obama telling us why we can t have health care,,perfect example..No more talk,,We have to change,,and the new plan will have to change,and the one after that,and so on..If you want things to run naturally, like the Earth,or nature,it has to be changing constantly,,,Otherwise, the changes become abrupt,violent,more cataclysmic...Any profit based syatem will be fixed,like ours has been for way too long,to continue the profit margins for the handful controlling the resources....Politics should become extinct, it has no place in our society any longer..People think it makes us civilized, but ,actually,it is one of the most primitive parts of us,at least in this evolution of man..We don t need leaders to make us feel secure anymore, or like everything is under control, living in the fear that the "tribe" next door could attack anytime goes as far back as we can remember...If everything belongs to everybody, there is no reason to attack anymore

Francis's picture

about nature being run from the bottom up.  I would think the Sun is pretty far toward the top of the pecking order, although that may just be human misperception again and even the truth of that may be a lot closer than we think.  I would think that nature is run from some pretty high forces that we understand very little of at the moment, unless you're well on your way to enlightenment.  We can look at the minute details of nature and think we have it sussed out but the truth is there's so much more at play from forces beyond our comprehension and some of them may be very high indeed. 

Storing a litte food may be a good idea in the short term but the best thing we can do is make that connection with our Source, therein lies our protection during any catastrophe.  Don't want to preach here but politics piss me off, it's just one pissing match after another.  I sometimes wonder if politics in the third density or dimension is too much based in duality to ever work, I mean how do you find common ground in such astounding diversity and polarity of ideals?  Not to end on a bad note, I do think that finding our true connection to everything and everyone, and hence overcoming fear, holds a real key to the problem.

ChrisBowers's picture

What bothers me about politics is how it makes utter fools of its devoted party followers that keep thinking theirs is right and yours is wrong.  Keeps the house weak and divided against itself, to busy to challenge the PTB, to busy seeing the enemy in one's neighbor to consider the power of joining hands with said neighbor and start a revolution for real change.

As long as the lemmings are clinging to and emotionally vested in opposing polarized sides of the aisle, they (both mock parties) will continue to blindly and happily/angrily run off the edge of the cliff together.  I'm pretty sure this is exactly what the orchestrators had in mind, or at least gravitated towards as the manipulative value became readily apparent...

Can anyone tell me where the hell plain and simple common sense went????

Wendy's picture

Good points about nature guys, made me stop and think. I realize now there's more cooperation in the natural world than I was thinking about before y'all made your points. Thinking more about it all there's almost every form of government and/or economic system represented in the natural world.

Plain and simple common sense? In the beginning there was the vaccine and the PTB said that was good. Then came TV, flouride and education and the PTB knew they were onto something. Then grown men started showing up at football games wearing funny hats and the PTB knew they had nothing to worry about ever again!


Where did plain and simple common sense go......

The CIA copyrighted it back in the 50's and shelved it as a national security threat...now if you use it you are subject to copyright infringement. In mild cases formal proceedings do not occur and punishment is left to ridicule, bullying and terms of incarceration in mental institutions. For more serious cases fines and jail terms are not uncommon.....

Mind you the hot talk on the net says that Osama now has it and has done a deal to sell it to China, the west is trying to raise money to compete with the chinese offer, rather than a lump sum they are offering to give him a commission of 1 cent for every CO2 molecule that we breath...they will call it a carbon tax..unfortunately the chinese offer appears to be higher than we can raise in the next century...

Either way it could be a while before we ever see it again........


ChrisBowers's picture

Jez, I hear there are still pockets of an underground movement to keep it alive and teach it to their children.  I watched "The Fluoride Deception - An Interview with Christopher Bryson" last night on a grassroots channel we have that is so refreshing and uncensored.  In the interview Bryson features a neurological scientist that was doing fluoride testing on animals and discovered that we have been lowering the IQ of children with the introduction of fluoride (industrial waste) in our water.  Shortly after she was blacklisted and has never received another research grant sense the release of that study...

The book and video really show how entrenched the corporatocracy is in science and research.  Shows old ads saying stuff like DDT is good for you and Dentists agree that Viceroy cigarettes are good for your teeth, or something to that effect.

The dumbing down of Americans has been an ongoing research project for decades now...  No wonder people aren't even aware of lacking common sense.  Other neurological disorders found in the aforementioned study are the same list of disorders children suffer from today, like attention deficit disorder and other similar conditions.

It's utterly amazing how insane things become when medicine is profit-based...

YouTube - Fluoride Deception Part 1

The Fluoride Deception (Interview With Christopher Bryson)

fluoride_deception .pdf (application/pdf Object)

Fluoride Action Network

Engineering_of_consent.pdf (application/pdf Object)

Statement from Dr. Phyllis Mullenix on the Neurotoxicity of Fluoride

oh, and the interview with Bryson made it so clear - if they have been willing to rationalize lacing our water with industrial waste fluoride for all this time, how difficult would it be for the same mentality to rationalize geo-engineering with aluminum oxide?  What moral hazard!

Wendy's picture



Post your comments here

"We were not foolish enough to try to make a currency [backed by] gold of which we had none, but for every mark that was issued we required the equivalent of a mark's worth of work done or goods produced. . . .we laugh at the time our national financiers held the view that the value of a currency is regulated by the gold and securities lying in the vaults of a state bank."

- Adolf Hitler, quoted in "Hitler's Monetary System," www.rense.com, citing C. C. Veith, Citadels of
(Meador, 1949)

Guernsey wasn't the only government to solve its infrastructure problems by issuing its own money. (See E. Brown, "Waking Up on a Minnesota Bridge," www.webofdebt.com/articles/infrastructure-crisis.php, August 4, 2007.) A more notorious model is found in post-World War I Germany. When Hitler came to power, the country was completely, hopelessly broke. The Treaty of Versailles had imposed crushing reparations payments on the German people, who were expected to reimburse the costs of the war for all participants — costs totaling three times the value of all the property in the country. Speculation in the German mark had caused it to plummet, precipitating one of the worst runaway inflations in modern times. At its peak, a wheelbarrow full of 100 billion-mark banknotes could not buy a loaf of bread. The national treasury was empty, and huge numbers of homes and farms had been lost to the banks and speculators. People were living in hovels and starving. Nothing quite like it had ever happened before - the total destruction of the national currency, wiping out people's savings, their businesses, and the economy generally. Making matters worse, at the end of the decade global depression hit. Germany had no choice but to succumb to debt slavery to international lenders.

Or so it seemed. Hitler and the National Socialists, who came to power in 1933, thwarted the international banking cartel by issuing their own money. In this they took their cue from Abraham Lincoln, who funded the American Civil War with government-issued paper money called "Greenbacks." Hitler began his national credit program by devising a plan of public works. Projects earmarked for funding included flood control, repair of public buildings and private residences, and construction of new buildings, roads, bridges, canals, and port facilities. The projected cost of the various programs was fixed at one billion units of the national currency. One billion non-inflationary bills of exchange, called Labor Treasury Certificates, were then issued against this cost. Millions of people were put to work on these projects, and the workers were paid with the Treasury Certificates. This government-issued money wasn't backed by gold, but it was backed by something of real value. It was essentially a receipt for labor and materials delivered to the government. Hitler said, "for every mark that was issued we required the equivalent of a mark's worth of work done or goods produced." The workers then spent the Certificates on other goods and services, creating more jobs for more people.

Within two years, the unemployment problem had been solved and the country was back on its feet. It had a solid, stable currency, no debt, and no inflation, at a time when millions of people in the United States and other Western countries were still out of work and living on welfare. Germany even managed to restore foreign trade, although it was denied foreign credit and was faced with an economic boycott abroad. It did this by using a barter system: equipment and commodities were exchanged directly with other countries, circumventing the international banks. This system of direct exchange occurred without debt and without trade deficits. Germany's economic experiment, like Lincoln's, was short-lived; but it left some lasting monuments to its success, including the famous Autobahn, the world's first extensive superhighway.1

Hjalmar Schacht, who was then head of the German central bank, is quoted in a bit of wit that sums up the German version of the "Greenback" miracle. An American banker had commented, "Dr. Schacht, you should come to America. We've lots of money and that's real banking." Schacht replied, "You should come to Berlin. We don't have money. That's real banking."2

Although Hitler has rightfully gone down in infamy in the history books, he was quite popular with the German people, at least for a time. Stephen Zarlenga suggests in The Lost Science of Money that this was because he temporarily rescued Germany from English economic theory — the theory that money must be borrowed against the gold reserves of a private banking cartel rather than issued outright by the government.3 According to Canadian researcher Dr. Henry Makow, this may have been a chief reason Hitler had to be stopped: he had sidestepped the international bankers and created his own money. Makow quotes from the 1938 interrogation of C. G. Rakovsky, one of the founders of Soviet Bolsevism and a Trotsky intimate, who was tried in show trials in the USSR under Stalin. According to Rakovsky, Hitler had actually been funded by the international bankers, through their agent Hjalmar Schacht, in order to control Stalin, who had usurped power from their agent Trotsky. But Hitler had become an even bigger threat than Stalin when he had taken the bold step of printing his own money. Rakovsky said:

[Hitler] took over for himself the privilege of manufacturing money and not only physical moneys, but also financial ones; he took over the untouched machinery of falsification and put it to work for the benefit of the state . . . . Are you capable of imagining what would have come . . . if it had infected a number of other states . . . . If you can, then imagine its counterrevolutionary functions.4

Economist Henry C K Liu writes of Germany's remarkable transformation:

The Nazis came to power in Germany in 1933, at a time when its economy was in total collapse, with ruinous war-reparation obligations and zero prospects for foreign investment or credit. Yet through an independent monetary policy of sovereign credit and a full-employment public-works program, the Third Reich was able to turn a bankrupt Germany, stripped of overseas colonies it could exploit, into the strongest economy in Europe within four years, even before armament spending began.5

In Billions for the Bankers, Debts for the People (1984), Sheldon Emry commented:

Germany issued debt-free and interest-free money from 1935 and on, accounting for its startling rise from the depression to a world power in 5 years. Germany financed its entire government and war operation from 1935 to 1945 without gold and without debt, and it took the whole Capitalist and Communist world to destroy the German power over Europe and bring Europe back under the heel of the Bankers. Such history of money does not even appear in the textbooks of public (government) schools today.

Another Look at the Weimar Hyperinflation

What does appear in modern textbooks is the disastrous runaway inflation suffered in 1923 by the Weimar Republic (the common name for the republic that governed Germany from 1919 to 1933). The radical devaluation of the German mark is cited as the textbook example of what can go wrong when governments are given the unfettered power to print money. That is what it is cited for; but in the complex world of economics, things are not always as they seem. The Weimar financial crisis began with the impossible reparations payments imposed at the Treaty of Versailles. Schacht, who was currency commissioner for the Republic, complained:

The Treaty of Versailles is a model of ingenious measures for the economic destruction of Germany. . . . [T]he Reich could not find any way of holding its head above the water other than by the inflationary expedient of printing bank notes.

That is what he said at first. But Zarlenga writes that Schacht proceeded in his 1967 book The Magic of Money "to let the cat out of the bag, writing in German, with some truly remarkable admissions that shatter the 'accepted wisdom' the financial community has promulgated on the German hyperinflation."6 Schacht revealed that it was the privately-owned Reichsbank, not the German government, that was pumping new currency into the economy. Like the U.S. Federal Reserve, the Reichsbank was overseen by appointed government officials but was operated for private gain. What drove the wartime inflation into hyperinflation was speculation by foreign investors, who would sell the mark short, betting on its decreasing value. In the manipulative device known as the short sale, speculators borrow something they don't own, sell it, then "cover" by buying it back at the lower price. Speculation in the German mark was made possible because the Reichsbank made massive amounts of currency available for borrowing, marks that were created with accounting entries on the bank's books and lent at a profitable interest. When the Reichsbank could not keep up with the voracious demand for marks, other private banks were allowed to create them out of nothing and lend them at interest as well.7

According to Schacht, then, not only did the government not cause the Weimar hyperinflation, but it was the government that got it under control. The Reichsbank was put under strict government regulation, and prompt corrective measures were taken to eliminate foreign speculation, by eliminating easy access to loans of bank-created money. Hitler then got the country back on its feet with his Treasury Certificates issued Greenback-style by the government.

Schacht actually disapproved of this government fiat money, and wound up getting fired as head of the Reichsbank when he refused to issue it (something that may have saved him at the Nuremberg trials). But he acknowledged in his later memoirs that allowing the government to issue the money it needed had not produced the price inflation predicted by classical economic theory. He surmised that this was because factories were sitting idle and people were unemployed. In this he agreed with John Maynard Keynes: when the resources were available to increase productivity, adding new money to the economy did not increase prices; it increased goods and services. Supply and demand increased together, leaving prices unaffected.

___________________ 1 Matt Koehl, "The Good Society?", www.rense.com (January 13, 2005); Stephen Zarlenga, The Lost Science of Money (Valatie, New York: American Monetary Institute, 2002), pages 590-600.   2 John Weitz, Hitler's Banker (Great Britain: Warner Books, 1999).   3 S. Zarlenga, op. cit.   4 Henry Makow, "Hitler Did Not Want War," www.savethemales.com (March 21, 2004).   5 Henry C. K. Liu, "Nazism and the German Economic Miracle," Asia Times (May 24, 2005).   6 Stephen Zarlenga, "Germany's 1923 Hyperinflation: A 'Private' Affair," Barnes Review (July-August 1999); David Kidd, "How Money Is Created in Australia," http://dkd.net/davekidd/politics/money.html (2001).   7 S. Zarlenga, "Germany's 1923 Hyperinflation," op. cit.

Ellen Brown, J.D., developed her research skills as an attorney practicing civil litigation in Los Angeles. In Web of Debt, her latest book, she turns those skills to an analysis of the Federal Reserve and "the money trust." She shows how this private cartel has usurped the power to create money from the people themselves, and how we the people can get it back. Brown's eleven books include the bestselling Nature's Pharmacy, co-authored with Dr. Lynne Walker, which has sold 285,000 copies.

Noa's picture

Now that's what I'm talking about!

ChrisBowers's picture

Better understood, money itself has no value other than the goods and services it becomes the symbolic medium of barter/exchange for.  You can sure tell when the shit is about to hit the fan when industry is displaced by the exercise of growing money from money...

tscout's picture

  of the greenback infuriated the european bankers,and made them more intent than ever on getting the central bank into this young country...This is talked about in the first zeitgeist movie....I think it would be a potential step in the right direction, but is still based on the old paradigm,,

Noa's picture

Money was created simply as a way of facilitating trade... that is until the bankers introduced the devices of interest, fractional reserves, inflation, derivatives, hedging etc.  Money based on anything finite, such as gold, silver, or Federal Reserve notes can't help but create scarcity, inequity, and competition between people.  (Although basing currency on precious metals is preferable to our current house of cards --  wherein money is created out of nothing, such practice still has scarcity at its source.)

Money based on exchanging what people already possess (knowledge, goods, raw materials, labor, services, etc.) has virtually unlimited potential for equitable sharing (though certainly conscientious management of natural resources is required to sustain billions of people).  Equitable trade fosters cooperation and brotherhood within communities.  By its very nature, such exchanges encourage creative solutions based on fair negotiations and win/win agreements amongst people.  People have been doing this for centuries and they're doing it now in countless communites across the world.

The old paradigm is believing that no other system of money exchange is possible beyond the one to which we've grown accustomed.


tscout's picture

  social issues which come from this system...which is what this thread is about....For some reason it has turned into a thread about money,ignoring the point made in the movie that eliminating the system  would eliminate  crime,greed,scarcity,starving children,,,,,,and fear,,fear that you might not have a place to live tomorrow,fear that you won t have "money" to feed your kids,or yourself,,the "survival" instinct,,which isn t really natural, but incites our worst behavior as human beings.....That will be change

ChrisBowers's picture

Thanks for bringing this thread back to the core intent of the ZG video.  Money creates different behavior and makes people forget how to just trade goods for services, services for services, or services for goods.  What this means is that we are and were never bound to the introduction of the monetary medium, especially a "leased" debt-based fiat monetary system.

It's a free world.  It takes much Self response-ability to fully realize this truth.  As long as people wish for kings to guide them and saviors to save them, then they will continue to blindly accept manufactured systems and constructs that enslave them.  So the "them" is really us!!!!

I truly believe this is the primary lesson of this earthly school, along with remembering the permanence and power of Love, regardless of apparent conditions "on the ground"...

I am still very inspired by Jacque Fresco's vision of a worldwide resource-based economic system...

tscout's picture

  It is such a mind game,,we all need to master self-reliance,yet, at the same time we are struggling to unite! ha!  Even our "saviours" all said in one form or another that all the answers are within us, yet without the crowds, their messages would not have been "heard" on such a large scale...And then again,they weren t "heard" by  most of us, only listened to...It is the yin and yang spoken of in some terms by all cultures..Everything contradicts itself,,,see ! Im lost !....No, I just have to laugh that we worship these incredible messengers,who were most likely just more evolved souls in the big family,we would do anything in their name but take their advice ! ha!....I think you are right on the money Chris, self-response-ability is what will raise our vibration..It is definitely the only thing I have tried that has made a real difference in my life,,now if I can just do it everyday,,ha!

Waakzaam's picture

Very interesting string...

The first thing that struck me, way back at the beginning, was how backwards our perception is, when Edward Griffin asserts that there is only "I", there is no "US".  In reality there is only "US", "WE".  The concept of a separate "I" is a lie created by the ego, the left brain "interpreter", the subconscious, the Wetiko psycho-virus.  Unfortunately, this reality can not be comprehended by the intellect which is the faculty we've most relied upon.  But it CAN be perceived and understood through personal experience.  That is the purpose of meditation.

The present, predominant, consciousness of separation is perceived (and therefore created) by the left brain "interpreter" (for an excellent description by a top neuropsychologist check this video).  The "interpreter" mechanism is "old hat" in modern psychology.  There is not controversy about its existence and mode of operation.  It operates before our awareness and it compares all perception data received through our senses to all our past experiences to determine its "goodness" or "badness" to our state of being, and THEN it is sent to our awareness unit for action.  If there is not sufficient data to make a determination, it will invent whatever is necessary, it will lie, and send that to our awareness unit so that we can always say "I am good", "This makes sense", "I am OK".  This is the reason we act illogically some times.

It is also well known, and proven beyond any doubt, that there is another organ of  perception on our right hemisphere.  And this one reports to the awareness unit ONLY what it perceives, no additions or subtractions of what is there. (the same film linked above touches on this part also, but for a short, more intense experience, check out the video below)

Most of us grow up using almost exclusively the left brain perception mechanism.  This is why we are nuts.  Meditation is a training program (in a myriad of forms) that tries to break the old habits of perception in order to become aware of, and start using the right hemisphere perception mechanism (in conjunction with the heart, since it turns out the the heart is also a "thinking" organ), once we can do this with any kind of consistency, we can enter this other "consciousness" in which we can become aware of the "us-ness" of our being.  And there is not need to worry about "lack of personal responsibility", or "something taking advantage of the situation".  This consciousness can not be entered without total integrity, without total commitment to Reality.  There are no slackers in the "body" of the... (what is it's name?)

I have recently experienced some wonderful events while doing sacred breathing during my meditation, not just with you in this group, but also with the people in Egypt as the revolution was occurring.  I breathed with them and realized that they are part of the momentous events that are coming to be, as the fateful moment in 2012 approaches, which as predicted, things are going to be relentlessly picking up speed until it happens.  I had on doubt that they would succeed as I followed the events in Al Jazeera English.  It is part of the collapse of the present order of things. 

However, they still have the hardest part of the revolution to do... will they break away from "The Web of Debt"?  Without this there will not be a revolution, only the exchange of and old boss for a new boss.  I trust the light will shine on them.

But the real "kicker" for me came yesterday when I ran across an essay by Charles Eisenstein "Elephants: Please Don't Go" in which he wrote about a group meditation event:

"After a few minutes of random thoughts, I felt the presence of the Elephant, a vast and incredibly ancient being. I asked, "What do you want?" The Elephant said, "We want you to ask us to stay." There followed an upwelling of words and images to the following effect:

Don't imagine that we are helpless to save ourselves. We can manipulate reality in ways you cannot begin to imagine. We are leaving because the way you treat us says that you don't want us. If our gifts are not welcome to you, we will bow out.

I think most people would feel the same way, the way we feel if we're working at a job where our contributions are not appreciated and we are not respected..."

The whole essay is an excellent piece of information and insight.  I highly recommend it.

That night I became aware that I was not breathing only with my fellow humans, but with all Creation.  It is an exhilarating experience.  This "us-ness" is now very real to me. 

And as Heaven would have it, as I went shopping for groceries today, I ran into so many nice people who were happy and helpful.  What a coincidence, no?

Nature is going through some radical changes.  We are part of Nature.  All we need to do is become aware of it, become conscious of it, and operate from that consciousness, at all times of the day (don't fall back into old mental habits) and let IT, Nature, do the transformation.  In Peace, we will receive the intuitions to do our part when we need to act.

In faith and Love.



ChrisBowers's picture

ahhhh, to allow ourselves to bend, to receive Nature's Divine assist....

wonderful post Bob, thank you for it, and for Being what you're allowing yourself to Be...

p.s. this also made me realize that there is a paradox concerning the saviorship model mankind has clung to for some time now.  there is no savior coming to save us, and yet we receive an assist when we yield to the One-ness that All is.

I imagine that the art of appreciation also gets into this, the building of awareness of the right brain/heart mind that is more than able to overcome the insanity of the left brain interpretor.  the hell we disdain is in the left brain, and yet we struggle and fight to rationalize its right to remain.

insane in the membrane....  INSANE IN THE BRAIN!!!!!

tscout's picture

  is our all finally becoming unified, and making up the whole, or ,the saviour!! full circle !! I like it !

Waakzaam's picture

"to allow ourselves to receive Natures Divine assist".  "THE Savior is ALL of us" (paraphrasing).  I love it!

And it's not some abstraction or intellectual construct.  This is why the Zeitgeist Movement, Collapse Net, Transition Towns, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, G-Spot, Awakening As One, and so many other entities exist and are evolving.  And we will all end up cooperating with each other because that is the only way we can survive the massive series of crisis's that are approaching us at present. 

Cooperation, working together, mutual appreciation, dignity for all, peace for all, children being children. Isn't it a BEAUTIFUL world we are entering into?  Can you see a world celebration of folkloric music from the entire world, to celebrate the amazing diversity created by one single species, as we work together to fix the mess we made? (my personal dream  :-)

"The Powers That Be" are like the ego or interpreter of the human species and they can be handled the same way we "handle" our own personal ego/interpreter... don't listen to it... don't believe the crap it tells us.  Instead search for and find the "organs of perception" that are really connected to what is real on the ground, here on Earth. 

(To that effect I'm starting another thread about a program I just watch this morning showing how the social networks enabled the Tunisian and Egyptian revolution, together with a panel discussion about what to do next.  No "Kill Switch" here in the US.  Good stuff  :-)

Thank you for being who you are.



ChrisBowers's picture

ACIM said many things that really hit home in the seat of the right brain/Heart collaboration, but this one really is one of the more liberating ones in such a dynamic way.

"trading bad illusions for good illusions, and finally, good illusions for none at all"

so here is another good illusion that rings true in my Heart/Mind, that the saviorship paradox is solved by understanding that the sense of being assisted and guided on this willful experiential journey is actually us reaching toward us.

the left brain interpretor commonly decides that "It" is something other than us reaching out to us and looking out for us.  the left brain determination of a saviorship model is an act of separation by a rationalization of self awareness that has decided it is separate and to some degree alone.

as we strongly suspect, nothing could be further from the truth, but how in the world would we ever have such fantastic and dynamic experiential lessons of alleged good and evil without such a dynamic illusory rationalization such as separation???

nothing new to any of you, but always good to state from time to time during this most willful journey and collaboration...

Wendy's picture

James Corbett expresses my doubts and fears about engineered or planned social systems.



Noa's picture

Corbett makes some valid points.  Lots of failed attempts at creating Utopia.

I think a return to tribal societies, where small groups of people interact cooperatively, is a more sustainable way of life.

tscout's picture

  i am glad to see so much talk about the Zeitgeist movement again, good or bad ! Chris, I like the point you make cross referencing George's ideas about our sovereign journeys. I also see the point about any system being a cop out of sorts, but still,,the zeitgeist ideas would create a much better atmosphere for people to explore themselves than any of the 9 to 5 crap we have been locked into for so long. No matter who is president, we are still locked into that mess. at least Zeitgeist's ideas free us from that paradigm, given us time to evolve, and as long as those ideas keep evolving, we are getting somewhere..

        Is Ringing Cedars the name of vladimir's books?. I would like to buy them to take to China with me, I am intrigued by his story. I have beeen working in New orleans all summer, where I grew up, and , although this is one of the most beautiful and intriguing cities in the world, i see it in a totally different light now. these old, fantastic houses are just a big waste of raw materials, they are constantly being maintained, old wood from 1000 year old trees being replaced with chemically grown garbage. everything I work with here is toxic, and it is an endless feat to keep one of these old places. So, where do we draw the line. I say right here.I know this sounds miniscule, but being involved in it off and on for so many years, I now see it as a perfect example, and reason to change the paradigm....Of course , the inner journey is much more fun ! , I just find that a way to relate to it personally. How long do we keep repairing places for nostalgic purposes. Places that were built this way in their time because that's where we were technologically then. Inefficient, oversized, energy sucking monsters. Anyways, you get the picture. That example just came to mind when I saw this thread opened again. It is also part of my journey, as I have returned here off and on my entire life, always in awe of the craftsmanship and sweat, and labor that built places like this. once I just came back and visited all the ;haunted" places associated with an old city like this..I have been feeling all summer that this will be the last time I see this place, and have been really trying to appreciate it.....

          thanx for the tip on those books ,Chris, i have a feeling I will enjoy them,,,I haven't been around much lately, but , whoever "brutha Jim " is, I hope he is doing better too ! 

                  Lots of love to everyone here,,,,T



Anastasia is the first book of the Ringing Cedar Series by Vladmir Megre.  It is an incredible book that speaks to the HEART.  So much is contained in that 1 Book!  The rest of the books are interesting too..

Vladamire Megre also is a Spiritual Activist.  The speeches he gives are very incredible.  I would highly recommend reading them! 

lightwins's picture

The Anastasia series of book...Vladimir becomes a much better writer as he goes along so, persist past is awkward style in the first book or two.

ChrisBowers's picture

Couldn't agree more Todd about the resource based economy model mentioned by the Venus Project.  In spite of that I can really see Kavassilas' point of view shining through even the most exquisite model.  A model like that would at least give a population a chance to see more clearly the value of such a equitable system, but the question remains, would they or could they see enough without experiencing a personal epiphany of enlightenment for themselves? (rhetorical question)

It kind of gets into a chicken or the egg scenario.  Could a population's personal and collective epiphany be triggered by such a wonderful and liberating socioeconomic system, or would such a social system be the natural spontaneous result of a population that had experienced a personal and collective epiphany of Oneness such as that which George K. is getting at?  (another rhetorical question).

There is such an excellent point made in the movie the Matrix, when they said that initially whole crops (of humans) failed when they set up the first Matrix program to be a perfect paradise.  Makes one think about how much that may be spot on true in reality...

As for those amazing books mentioned by Angelika Whitecliff in the video link provided in my other post above, I just ordered all nine books today on Amazon by Googling the "Anastasia series of books".  I would imagine that Googling "Ringing Cedars" would get you there too...

The Ringing Cedars are the reason he (the Author) headed in that direction initially, to see those amazing Cedars that allegedly make a ringing sound due to all the energy they have collected over 100's of years, and it is where he ran into Anastasia who grew up there, almost completely by herself, untouched by normal convention and social norm, giving her an opportunity to become what she has become...

I hear the books are beyond inspirational, that they are actually (much like the WingMakers material is alleged to be) encoded with that which assists the reader in awakening...  And Jim Gifford (page 6 of the members directory in "more" at the top) is one of the guys here who is such a wonderful gentle peaceful soul (are you blushing Jim? LOL) and had mentioned on the left column that he had just had brain surgery I think is what he said...

May your lamp stay full of oil dear brother, and I am perfectly confident it always will...

ChrisBowers's picture

This is exactly why I appreciate what Kavassilas is getting at concerning our own personal and very Sovereign journey(s) toward "whatever".

George has, according to his personal testimony, run into some very interesting entities, light and dark.  To a very dark entity trying to scare the shit out of him during his trip to the moon he simply stood his ground and said to the entity, "now do you understand?", and the figure shrunk in stature and acknowledged in the affirmative.

And to some of the entities he has run into from the lighter side of things he has had to disregard what they were saying because they were trying to get unassuming individuals to join them in their paradigm instead of telling them that the authentic journey is within and cannot be externalized.

In politics we tend to look for hopefuls that could change the paradigm and "fix it".  We look for a Ron Paul or a Dennis Kucinich and think to ourselves, "ohhhh, if only they were in charge, how good things could be", but that is just one more attempt to project the answer onto someone or something else, to externalize a solution that can never be, not until we collectively, or at least enough of us to make a natural progression toward the new paradigm, have a very personal and sovereign transcendent change of heart and mind that would bring authenticity to the very natural progression, as it should be.

We cannot have someone do it for us.  As wonderful as what the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist Movement (as well as many many others) are talking about, it would still be just one more attempt to externalize the answer via social engineering, albeit much more benevolent attempts at social engineering, but still destined to fail without the authentic change within for all the individuals involved, or at least a great many of them.

This is why Kavassilas brings such simple clarity to the personal mission of each sovereign individual.  He or she is not presented with a myriad of choices for how to get there.  We are simply presented with the personal challenge to go within and find the Sovereign Divine that is already there, the forgotten and foresaken Authenticity, the power and ability to create whole new universes.

We are so damn powerful that we can talk ourselves into being weak and helpless when we are anything but....  This is a problem that externalization and methodology cannot solve.  We cannot steer and manipulate with politics and social engineering the collective manifested externalization we see before us.  We each must go within to bring about that beautiful spontaneous new paradigm.  Or better yet, no paradigm at all!!!!!  Just collective clarity that won't get fooled again....

This is more good stuff from Angelika Whitecliff, especially the latter half, WOW

Unveiling our Hidden History & Telepathic Future: Humanity's Spiritual Awakening

and speaking of journeys toward the within,

Ringing Cedars - Official Website


I suspect that no system, no matter how good or how well-intentioned can work, for it would be artificial in comparison to the authentic personal experience required for and by each and every one of us, for that is what we contracted for in the first place...

Knightspirit's picture

Wow - what a great thread! I feel like I missed all of the best hors d'œuvres...

I find it interesting though - that we have sort of a double standard going as we approach the "event." If we can trust what G. Kavassials is proposing, there won't really need to be any new system. The whole universe will be gone! This parallels MV as well. So it's almost as though we need to decide which reality is at the core of our belief system. If we are to remain here in 3rd density - then start storing the food, and creating the new system etc. But if we are going to 5th density - food won't even be consumed - so it's a moot point.

For me personally - and I guess this is why I gravitate towards the G.K. viewpoint  - I am just really tired of it all. I don't want a new system in an old reality. I would prefer a new reality all together, without money, without health issues, without any resources needing to be divided and managed. So I am putting 100% trust in my higher self to take me where I am supposed to be. I hope it's in a 5D paradigm, but I guess we shall just have to wait and see.

And so there's the rub. Do we contiue on as though there will NOT be a 5D transformation? Make all of those plans about changing the system and bla bla? Or do we put all of our blind faith in a 5D transformation and do nothing? In a way - I can see both things happening - in that as an incarnation here, the transformation may not occur for us until we actually die, so we may need to ride the old paradigm out for quite some time still. So making those changes might be a good idea (and storing the food for the interim). Or maybe we all go together ("die" as 3rd density incarnationds) and that will be the "event."

I'm just done worrying about it - and wish it would happen already, LOL!

Noa's picture

As I understand it, the transition to 5-D Reality could take several hundred years.  There is, afterall, a 4-D in between.  Even Ghandi couldn't make it that long without food!

I think many of us are tired of the physical struggle, but it seems to me that shedding the old paradigm and learning how to coexist lovingly with our neighbors is a big step towards our ascension.  When Ram Dass asked Marharj-ji for the key to enlightenment he replied, "Serve the people; feed the people."

I've heard it said many times by various sources... where your heart resonates determines whether you remain in 3-D or ascend to 5-D.  Here's a technique I just stumbled upon.  In my prayers and meditation, I've started going beyond perceiving myself as a personal soul being.  I'm thinking more now in terms of "we."  We ascend, we heal, we are greatful.  The resulting energy is supercharged expotentially.  If you try it, let me know how it goes.

Well, every journey has a ship that we sail upon... and every ship needs to be maintained... soooo why would you shit where you eat and eat where you shit and pretend it is not there because you are sailing on a ship toward a new land...

Really, it all comes down to making the world a comfortable place for all to reside upon while we await the New New Earth 5D as opposed to the New Earth STO 3D and 4D. 

The ship that we are all sailing with to 5D is a 1000 year journey.  Ignition simply occurs somewhere around 2012-13 not the whole Shift into a Star.  This is what is meant by all the prophecies from the Native Elders that there will be "1000 years of Peace." 

First, the orbit of the Earth-Gaia Ship must be corrected and realigned to its natural orbit.  This is what is happening now.  Then the relationship with the Solaris-Sun changes as the Sun Changes from a Variable Star to a more mature Fixed Star  (think Adolescent male as opposed to Late 20's Male) and the affects of all the other planets change. 

The Moon is in the process of being deactivated... and then all will begin to change... It will be like being healed from ergot sickness.


Love More and expect miracles.

Noa-- In all of my blessing and prayer/intention work there is no 1 "I"  it is always a multitude of I's that are all part of the whole We-I-- even when I say I, I envision and send out the Energy of We-- or the All.  Each Drop affects the Whole and each drop contains the whole.

I bless you all with Love.


The Gathering Spot is a PEERS empowerment website
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